Okay, so now that we’ve put 5000km+ on the Jones LWB HD/e, here are a few up-to-date thoughts on how the Bafang motor has performed, to add to these previous ones.
First things first. Jones offer a somewhat confusing variety of builds. In terms of models, the motor that you see above is the 750W BBSHD, with a 48V 17Ah battery, like this one.
Within the US e-bike classification system, the bike I have is a Class 3, which means it it tops out at 28mph/45kph using pedal assist. Mine also has an added throttle, which would technically make it illegal to ride in the States, though just a little plastic lever squeezes between the grip and the brake lever, so it’s easy enough to remove. Or, you could adjust the motor to top out at 20mph, so it becomes a legal Class 2 with a throttle.
Also, note that there’s now a V2 version of the complete bike, with a Box Prime 9 drivetrain, rather than the Sram 12 speed that I have. This should cut down on clicking through gear changes all the time, ideal for an e-bike as the motor usurps the need for a perfect pedalling cadence.
For the most part, we use the bike as a car or motorbike replacement, allowing us to zip into town to run errands on a hot day, or hit up the local market for a pannier full of produce. But we’ve also used it for longer day rides, and a few campouts too.
Overall, the bike has been fantastic. Since I last posted about it we’ve moved out of the city centre, and now live on a dirt road at the end of an especially steep hill. Without the e-Jones, daily life would doubtlessly be more logistically challenging, especially in the summer heat. Thanks to the motor, Sszing isn’t such an exact science for e-bikes, which means both Emma and I can use this bike – we have a quick release lever to quickly adjust the saddle height.
Recently, I added a big milk crate to an Old Man Mountain Divide rack, to consolidate its city errand/shopping credentials. But it’s easy enough to remove and replace with a couple of panniers if we’re to use it camping again.
I also swapped out the Jones H-bar Bends for some 31 degree backsweep Tumbleweed Persuader bars. I do the way the way this bike rides with Jones bars, the Persuaders offer a less awkward interaction between bars, shifter, brake levers, and crate, and allow the crate to be positioned more inwards. It does change the reach a little – perhaps I’ll swap out the stem for one that’s a little longer but in the meantime, I’m enjoying the extra upright riding position. The 800mm bars are probably a bit wide for Emma, to be fair, and would make the bike hard to park in a European apartment!
In fact, it’s the same milk crate that Huesos used to fit it, back when I had the ti SWB…
I tend to run weight on the front of LWB HD/e for a few reasons:
- We sometimes use this bike to pull a Farfarer trailer, which rules out the use of a rear rack.
- Even though adding weight to the front end slows down steering, I find that the extra offset in the Jones LWB geo means this bike handles front loading well.
PROS
- The Bafang BBSDH continues to run largely fault free. The electronics have glitched out twice, briefly, after heavy rain during the rainy season. Our typical riding is hard on the motor and the electrical system, with an assortment of vibrations, dirt, dust, and heavy rain to contend with.
- As ever, the BBSHD offers tonnes of power for navigating busy city streets, and out-tussling buses, SUVs, and trucks. It’s also great for climbing steep hills, of the kind we have in abundance here in Oaxaca.
- The massive tyres that came fitted can be run at low pressure (sub 20psi), which adds considerably to off road comfort. Given that the motor is helping these goliath tyres spin up to speed (rather than leg power alone), such a volume makes a lot of sense on an e-bike. I barely have to worry about potholled city streets. Getting spares is tricky and costly though, and I’d prefer a tyre with more bite at the front, so it’s less likely to slide out on loose dirt roads. I’ve since been running the Duro Cruxes on my Spaceframe, and I much prefer them over the Bulldozers.
- The Jones Geo means steering is quick but also very predictable. This gives the LWB HD/e a safe yet engaging ride, one that’s bolstered by the inherent strength of its beefed up frame, and the low centre of gravity of the motor and battery. The short reach works really well with the electric assist, too, giving you a nice and upright position for navigating traffic.
- The motor is relatively easy to remove. I’ve now done it a number of times, either to change things up, or to loan out the non-assisted bike to visiting friends.
- I’ve rotated the chain a few times, to eek out life from the cassette for as long as we can. It’s steel rather than aluminium, so better suited to handle the extra stresses of a high torque e-bike.
- Overall, parts have held up really well, including Jones’ own 36 hole aluminium rims. The BB7s and 203mm rotors, teamed with Bafang’s brake levers, are incredibly powerful, though they do need regular adjustment. I’ve changed pads a number of times, mostly running generic budget replacements that are easy to find here.
CONS
- Whilst the Bafang BBSHD’s power is welcome on the open road, it feels like it would be overkill in an area with good bike infrastructure. I’d choose a smaller motor system and a smaller battery too, to lighten the bike a little, and reign in some of that power.
- The whole bike, especially with mudguards, rack, and panniers, is a very heavy beast. Combined with the bike’s sheer size, it’s a lot to carry up stairs, or even move around an apartment.
- Now that I’ve had a chance to use the Bosch system again, I’m still divided about cadence activated systems. Whilst the BBSHD has ample power on tap, delivery isn’t as smooth and intuitive as a torque activated motor. It’s easy to ghost pedal unless I adjust the speed controller in tandem with gear changes. I wish there was an app to modify these speeds, and tailor them to my needs and the terrain.
- There’s no accompanying software to tell you about the state of your battery, or how many charges it’s had.
- The Bafang battery charger is on the big side, and it’s relatively slow, which is worth bearing in mind if you plan to take this bike with you on a bikepacking trip.
- The extra long wheelbase offers a really smooth ride feel, but I did find the bike benefitted from careful weight placement of rear panniers to avoid any steering wobbles. Sliding them as far forward as possible works best. I actually find a 65/35 front/back weight ratio works better than running a rearward weight bias.
- I’ve had to replace the bearings in the front wheel, but it was a task that my local bike shop could carry out, and the bearings themselves were easy to source.
- The basic SX derailleur failed, perhaps in part due to a poor gear change. Luckily I had a spare GX one so it was a quick change.
- When bikepacking (without the Bafang), I greatly missed not having a downtube mount to haul extra water. It compromises the bike as a non-electric touring bike.
Links to other posts featuring the LWB HD/e
- https://stilloutriding.com/2024/06/dog-e-bikepacking-shake-down/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2024/01/la-reina-pushpacking-overnighter/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2023/10/back-in-oaxaca/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2023/05/dog-e-bikepacking-in-tlacochuyuaya/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2023/04/oaxaca-catchup/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2023/03/a-day-out-with-the-lwb-hd-e/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2023/03/some-thoughts-on-the-jones-lwb-hd-e-for-e-bike-commuting-and-touring/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2022/09/coffee-outside-hierve-style/
- https://stilloutriding.com/2022/08/presa-la-mina-day-bimble/
Thanks for reading. Any questions, fire away!
edouard
14 June 2024 at 1:53 pm
How is the chain line on that set up?
I was thinking a Jones with a torque sensing motor and belt drive.
Then you’d need a Rohloff or something similar.
Cass
14 June 2024 at 4:52 pm
The Bafang has a wide q factor and pushes the chain line out a bit, but it looks fine. The long chain probably helps, too.
I expect the frame is stiff enough for a belt drive, though you’d need to add chainstay splitters and use a chain tensioner for the Rohloff. From what I’ve read, Rohloffs and Boost spacing don’t tend to play very well, though.
I know Jeff experimented with some Bosch motors initially, before settling on the Bafang, in part to futureproof it, I think. Still, I’d love to try one of those prototypes!
edouard
14 June 2024 at 6:42 pm
I have a BBSHD on a Rocky Mountain Blizzard, its been a nightmare for a number of reasons, not really related to the electrification.
The chain line is horrible, I don’t think chains will have a long life on it, but since the bike spends more time on the workstand than riding, I don’t know.
I have a Jones LWB modified for Rohloff with a belt drive.
I rode it on the GDMBR a few years ago.
Fantastic bike, but as I get older I fantasize about turning it into an electric. I was thinking maybe a Photon or a ToSevenM01 for the torque sensing. Trouble with a Bosch is everything is proprietary , and you can’t buy parts or program it unless you are a dealer.
Oaxaca is a totally cool place, I visited it many years ago for El Noche de Rabanos. I’d like to visit again.
Seems like you have settled in well there, I just discovered this iteration of your adventures, wishing you well for the future.
Cass
14 June 2024 at 7:19 pm
Oh nice!
My first Jones, the Plus, is currently set up with Rohloff (and chain) and I love that bike. It was the generation of frames that came with 135mm spacing, so it wasn’t too hard to set up with my existing hub. I’ve heard Rohloff is super strict about testing your Boost-spaced frame first, before they’ll even sell you one?! And, that modifying a 135 to a Boost version is really costly and complicated, which is why my Spaceframe is set up with a derailleur.
Agreed, Bosch would be a pain in some ways but I just love the way the power delivery feels. Much more ‘bike-like’, IMO. I’m really curious about the CYC Photon. I hadn’t heard about the ToSevenM01- I’ll have to read about it!
For sure though, the BBSHD has tonnes of power, has proved very reliable for us, and works well with the mods on the LWB HD/e frame. I’ve rotated the chain a few times, so wear and tear hasn’t been too bad. If I remember rightly, the HD/e uses the chain in its entirety, as the stays are longer than the standard LWB. With the Bafang especially, there’s reasonably good mud clearance in the lowest gears when running 29×3.25s. I have all the parts and tools I need to turn it acoustic stored in a box, so it’s pretty easy to swap between the two, another benefit of a kit motor…
edouard
18 June 2024 at 7:21 pm
I had my Jones modified for belt and rohloff by Cycle Monkey, who are very good, but not cheap. I do like the way the Jones rides.
Having perused the Jones website, I can see that the difference between the regular frames and the ebike frames accounts for the lack of chainline problems.
I am really tempted to get one and try a true torque sensing motor on it like maybe the ToSeven. I find the cadence sensing BBS system hard to ride on semi-technical dirt trails, compared to Shimano torque sensing.
Never tried the Bosch.
Good to hear how reliable the BBSHD has been for you, so sad they don’t do true torque sensing.
Hope to read more of your adventures.
Steve
8 October 2024 at 10:15 am
Wondering what handlebar you are using on your HD/e. Looks like you switched out the Jones bar for something with more rise. Was that because you couldn’t get the front end high enough with the Jones bar? I’m possibly in the market for a HD/e and think I have similar proportions to you– 6’1″ with a PBH (Rivendell method) of 36.25 inches (92cm). Wondering if you would recommend the large or medium.
Cass
8 October 2024 at 10:36 am
I fitted some Tumbleweed Persuader bars, but this was purely to create more cable clearance for the crate and allow it sit a little close to the cockpit. I much prefer Jones bars on this bike, in terms of reach and hand positions, so I’ve since moved it back. No issues on handlebar height with the Jones bars.
As for sizing… I’d be inclined to suggest a large but it’s probably best to chat to Jeff Jones. I believe he tends to size people down rather than up. I find I can fit both an medium and an large in the LWB Jones with plenty of stack for a comfy ride position, and a slightly longer or shorter stem to get the reach I like.
However, I’m at the upper end of the medium in terms of seat tube length, at least if I want to run a dropper post. I actually have a medium LWB for a slightly more sporty ride, and a large LWB that I run with a basket and a massive frame bag for touring, and I love them both!
Steve
9 October 2024 at 6:45 am
Thanks for the response Cass. So I’m thinking that for my purposes (long legs with short torso desiring max upright position) a large LWB HD/e with a shorter stem (to make the reach equivalent to the medium) might be the way to go. Do you think that if I switched the stock 80mm stem to a 50mm stem the ride would be okay, or would it become twitchy?
Cass
9 October 2024 at 10:01 am
I wouldn’t describe handling to be twitchy, but it is quick and lively, regardless of stem length. This is something I really love about these bikes, as their quick steering is allied with a long and stable wheelbase, making them both fun and confidence inspiring!
So, I think a shorter stem would be just fine – in fact, the reach doesn’t change much between sizes, so it doesn’t necessarily need to be much of a change in stem length. I think a chat with Jeff Jones, if you haven’t already, would be really worth it, as he’s better placed for these kind of sizing specificities!
It sounds like a large is the frame for you. But as an FYI, I still have a really upright riding position with my medium Jones. I run both sizes so the handlebar is roughly in line with the saddle, just with the addition of a few more headset spacers in the medium size. In absolute terms, the headtube on a medium is of course a bit shorter. But I don’t think it makes much difference in the realworld, as stack is high for both bikes, and the fork steerer is long. I cut it down on the bike pictured above, which is a medium.
For me, the medium has meant I can share the LWB HD/e with Emma. I’m not sure if you’re planning to run it with a Bafang, but I’ve found e-bikes don’t need to be quite so size perfect.
Steve
9 October 2024 at 7:14 pm
Not running it with a Bafang (for now), and part of the reason I’m thinking in terms of large is so that my son, who is 15 years old, 6’3″ and still growing, can better fit it– hoping to cart him off on bike packing adventures at some point (I already on a Surly Wednesday, which can be used for that purpose). So overall, sounds like large is the way to go.
By the way, I’m in Santa Fe (have been for about 12 years), so I’m sure our paths have unknowingly crossed and that we know people in common. And, another coincidence, I’m also a Brit (originally from London). I guess I’ll fill the expat-biking-Santa-Fe-Brit slot in town during your absence (although my journalistic activities certainly won’t fit the bill!).
Cass
9 October 2024 at 9:39 pm
Well, in that case, you are welcome to throw a leg over the Jones that I have in storage in Santa Fe! It’s a Jones Plus size L but the geo is the same as the newer LWBs – and similar, sizing wise, to the HD/e. I plan to be there later this month, so by all means drop me a line, perhaps via instagram @whileoutriding.
Steve
15 October 2024 at 8:21 am
Hi Cass,
That’s a very kind offer, one I think I’ll take you up on! I’m not on Instagram, but my email address is sdrosenb1@gmail.com. Feel free to drop me a line when you are in town so that we can figure out a time and place for a test ride.
Best,
Steve