Some initial e-bike thoughts
I clambered aboard the Jones LWB HD/e this morning, after finally reinstalling the Bafang BBSHD motor to it last week. And surreptitiously, I also read today that in 2021, 52% of car journeys in the US were less than 3 miles, a distance that’s completely within the capabilities of e-bikes, whether you consider yourself to be a ‘cyclist’ or not. As is my tendency when I ride the e-Jones, I’m overcome once more (with evangelical-like enthusiasm) for the role motor-assisted bicycles could play, relatively easily, in changing city mobility, and how much more liveable our cities could become with their widespread adoption.
If you’re a car owner, e-bikes make a compelling case to drive less, yet still get everything you need to get done, done. For city dwellers, they’re an extremely efficient use of your time for covering typical urban distances – say up to 10km, or 6 miles. They’re easy to park (or bring into a building with you). They encourage you get you out and about, interacting with your community, in way that’s completely lost when you’re behind the steering wheel of car. They provide exercise, without being exhausting (or super sweaty on a hot day), and they flatten hills in lumpy locales. They barely take up any room, both on and off the road, creating a sense of space and serenity in our cities. And they’re fun! If you already cycle, they level the playing field and make life so much easier in car-centric areas (which, let’s face it, is an awful lot of the world).
In fact, once you’ve spent some time living with an e-bike, the question becomes less “why would you get one?” and more “why wouldn’t you?”
The Jones LWB HD/e
This is the LWB HD/e Complete without the Bafang motor. Basically, it’s a stretched, heavy duty version of the excellent Jones LWB, with some tubing profile and rear end geometry tweaks.
Somewhat unusually, the Jones LWB HD/e Complete is a bike that’s available in both an e-assisted and non-assisted form. The transformation comes by way of a powerful 750W Bafang BBSHD mid-drive kit, though there are other options available too.
Although Bafang mid drive kits will work on almost any bike, there are various design features that make the donor LWB HD/e frameset particular e-bike friendly. This includes a wheelbase that’s longer than usual (good for stability), a frame that’s intentionally stiffer than the standard LWB (hence HD/e: Heavy Duty/Electric), and a bottom bracket area that’s shaped to better accommodate the motor, whilst still ensuring you can run a kickstand. There are other mods too, such as the parts chosen for the Complete build, which are robust enough to withstand the extra torque generated by an electric motor. For example, it’s specced with a steel cassette and axle, cassette is steel, a single-click shifter, and 36-hole, heavy-duty rims, all of which are more e-bike friendly, at the expense of some extra weight.
Even if the subject is somewhat divisive, especially in the US, I’ve enjoyed this bike equally in both its forms, and have swapped between the two on a number of occasions.
If you have all the tools at the ready, the conversion from muscle and sinew form to e-assist takes about an hour, depending on how many times you’ve done it, and mechanically adept you are.
How I often use the LWB HD/e
Most of my e-bike rides involve hauling cargo, in the form of an 18kg Huesos, pulled in a Frances Cycles Farfarer. But we’ve also use it for shopping duties too, or for just zipping around town when there’s lots of traffic on a hot day.
Bafang offer a whole range of consoles, with different information and settings displayed. Mine is pretty basic, with 5 power levels to choose from, along with an odometre and a trip distance reading. I tend to ride in numbers 2-3, as I find they strike a good balance in what I look for in an e-bike. It lends a helping hand on climbs, allows me to keep up with traffic, and I still feeling like I’m pumping blood around my body. On the occasions where I need to dash about more quickly, or outpace traffic, levels 4 and 5 are definitely more ‘moped’ in feel!
One of my local loops involves a stout climb to what we call the Microondas – a hilltop marked with a series of antennas – where we take Huesos for morning and afternoon walks. Unless I leave home by sunrise, the early morning traffic during the week is becoming ever more unpleasant for cycling. There’s also a particularly steep climb past a busy hospital that’s a real lung burner, especially if you’re stuck behind a few dawdling cars. Once we get to a road that’s largely car-free, Huesos hops out and runs. Terrain wise, there’s pavement, cobbles, ruts, and dirt, which really puts the Bafang through its paces.
The e-Jones does a great job at editing down this less appealing part of our morning ritual and motivates me to get out more, knowing I can access the trails more quickly and enjoyably. On most days, I’ll alternate. One ride on the e-Jones, and the other on my Spaceframe, as I still love the feeling of completely human-powered travel. Otherwise, I’ll unhook the trailer and use the bike to dive into town and grab some shopping, or race to the ice cream shop before it closes (-;
Aspects I like about the Bafang (and the LWB HD/e)
- The very same steel bike, in twenty years’ time, should still be in service, even if it’s without its original motor. (Hopefully, the motor will be good for 10 years+)
- The Jones Geo is a winner for me. The front end is light and engaging, and the riding position is supremely comfortable.
- In terms of parts, it’s a really well-considered bike. There’s a 36-hole wheelset, overbuilt hubs, a long lasting steel cassette, and powerful brakes. There’s also a choice build kits, so you can get the exact bike you want.
- In a way, it’s 2 bikes in 1. I could see someone e-commuting during the year and acoustic touring in the holidays. With some practice and the right tools to hand, it takes about an hour for the changeover. While it’s not something you’d do on a weekly basis, it’s straightforward enough for a few changes each year.
- As it’s a kit, the battery and motor are less likely to become obsolete, compared to fully integrated system with brand model specific batteries. If need be, you can even change motors, as the frameset should be able to accommodate any mid-drive kit. You could also defer the cost of the bike by buying it non-assisted initially, then fitting your chosen kit yourself.
- With the extra weight, the low centre of gravity, and its stiff frameset, the LWB HD/e is unwavering, no matter the speed. In e-bike mode, it’s peppy like a scooter, but without the noise and the high-speed dangers. It makes getting around town SUCH FUN! How often do you say that when you drive a car in the city?!
- Due to the high weight and low centre of gravity, there’s lots of stability when pulling the trailer, with 18kg of Huesos and paraphernalia.
- The moto-style Bafang brake levers, allied with Avid BB7s, feel great, with ample stopping power.
- 29+ tyres are fantastic on dirt roads and potholed paved roads alike, and for general riding confidence. The fact that they’re heavy is much less of an issue than it would otherwise be, as there’s a motor to help you out.
- Bafang BBSHD offers ample power to get you up to speed quickly, especially with 160 Nm of torque! Mine is adjusted to 28mph (making it a class 3 e-bike, in terms of US laws). In terms of real-world riding, I can climb the very steepest road easily on level 5, keeping up with cars, whilst level 3 is plenty for general use. This power and speed mean there’s less speed differential when I’m sharing the road with larger vehicles. Whilst I don’t think all this power is necessarily needed in cities with a robust bike infrastructure, courteous drivers, or less pollution, it feels really welcome in places where drivers can be overly assertive and aggressive. I can hold my own in the flow of traffic, rather than fighting like a minnow for survival!
- Being a long-established motor and kit, it’s easy to find parts and batteries online. I’ve read that the BBSHD is a very reliable motor.
- The system is pretty quiet.
- Jones mudguards are great! They help keep the electronics protected from rain and crud, too.
The Cons
- It’s a bolt-on kit, so there’s a tangle of wires to zip tie out of harm’s way. Personally, I like the way this bike looks, in a Mad Maxian kind of way. But it’s not aesthetically neat and integrated like the latest wave of dedicated e-bikes, and won’t appeal to everyone.
- The whole bike, in e-bike form, is relatively expensive, particularly for a ‘kit e-bike’. It might be better value to buy the complete bike or frame and fork, then add the kit yourself, especially if you’re tech savvy.
- The Bafang BBSHD is a cadence-activated system. This means that at slower pedalling cadences, there can be small delay to the motor kicking in and turning off. Depending on your power level, this can result in a somewhat jerky feel that can be off putting at slower speeds. I found this to be especially noticeable on steep, loose climbs. If you choose a power setting that’s too high, the bike may run away with you, as it’s based on your pedalling cadence, and not the torque you’re putting through the pedals. To help mitigate this, I generally aim for a lower assist level, so I’m not ‘ghost pedalling’. But all things considered, I’d prefer more natural, torque-assisted help that feels more ‘bike-like’.
- Most of the time, Level 2 or 3 is sufficient. But if you’re clipping along at one of the higher power levels and need to slow down quickly – perhaps a traffic light changes, you hit a traffic light, or in the case of Mexico, you have to brake to go over one of the innumerable topes (speed bumps), you need to remember to decrease the power and gear down. It takes some practice to hone this new style of riding.
- I don’t find the Bafang lends itself well to technical singletrack, at least without learning a new riding technique, as mentioned above. Without the motor, however, I actually find this frameset surprisingly capable. The steering is quick and the big tyres roll over everything, even if the wheelbase is extra long and the bottom bracket is low, so you have to take care not to pedal strike.
- A 12-speed drivetrain feels unnecessary on an e-bike, given that the motor makes up for larger jumps in a cassette. I think an 8 or 9-speed system would be ample. Perhaps the new Shimano Cues drivetrain would be a good option, or the Box Four 8 system? I even like the idea of a continuously variable transmission like the Enviolo, as any loss in efficiency is made for by the motor. An internally geared hub, like the Rohloff, could also be a good match, allowing a handful of gears to be changed at one time.
- The whole setup – bike and kit – is heavy. This makes it unwieldy to move around, especially in a small apartment, or up a flight of stairs.
- The Q factor (distance between cranks) is wide. This feels like less of an issue on an e-bike, but it may bother some. The upside to this is that there’s better clearance between the chain and a 29 x 3.25 in tyre, which is welcome in muddy conditions.
- The Bafang BBSHD requires a certain amount of knowhow and a peripheral device to customise. Unlike many e-bikes on the market, there isn’t an App to adjust the amount of assistance in each power level. Personally, I’d like to increase the power output of level 1 and decrease it slightly on Level 3. Similarly, Apps can immobilize the motor when the bike is locked up.
- My Bafang display is also very basic. There are just 5 power levels, speed, and an odometer. It would be useful to have one that offers an approximate range, based on the power level.
- I have a 48V 17aH battery, and it takes a long time to charge – around 6-9 hours. This is fine for city riding, but it does add some logistical challenges on a weekend campout.
- It would be nice to have a powerful front light wired in too.
- In the interests of frame integrity and stiffness, I believe, there are no eyelets below the downtube of the frame for extra water-carrying capacity.
And some questions I need to answer
- How reliable are the batteries, long-term? I need to look into this, with regard to charging/life cycles, and what happens if they fail. From what I understand, slow charging is better for eeking out battery life.
- How best to dispose of large lithium batteries at the end of their life cycle? I believe that with care, it should be possible to get 4+ years out of them. And, lithium is being recycled more andmore.
- How serviceable and repairable is the Bafang BBSHD, compared to a more conventional brand like Bosch or Shimano? Is there any technical support if things go wrong? Because it’s a kit motor, it’s a bit of a minefield figuring it all out, but at least there’s a lot of forums with fellow Bafang enthusiasts.
Any alternatives to the Bafang?
There are other mid-drive kits available, but the one that interests me most is the CYC Photon. From what I’ve read, it’s amply powerful and there’s an accompanying app too. Best of all, it’s torque activated, which I think I’d really like. It’s also very compact in size. Presumably, I could use the same battery, brakes, and wiring that I already have.
On the divisive subject of throttles
Although the bike came shipped as a Class 3 e-bike, which means it tops out with pedal assist at 28mph and there’s no throttle. I added one in to see what it felt like, although I don’t use it much when I’m riding. Mostly, it’s to get going quickly at traffic lights and beat the surrounding traffic, especially if forget to gear down when I stop.
It’s also useful when need a quick turn of speed if a bus is breathing down my neck. In Level 1, I use it to help me get the bike and trailer up the flight of stairs to where I live, as ‘walking mode’ isn’t quite strong enough. Because it’s a thumb-activated and plasticky, it doesn’t have the feel and resistance of a moped or motorbike throttle. To be honest, I think I’d get bored if I used the throttle alone without pedalling! And it would probably burn through the battery really quickly, given the terrain here. In conjunction with pedal-assisted riding, however, I find it very useful.
The Bafang in Muck and Rain
Lastly, here’s the LWB HD/e during the rainy season, before I fit full-length mudguards. The electronics have so far proved reliable in some heavy downpours and some serious mud. Although the kit is very exposed to said muck, there’s been no ingress from what I can see. The electronics did become glitchy once after an especially heavy storm, where the roads became rivers, but were fine once they dried out. Full-length mudguards, as I’ve now fitted, should help with long-term durability.
OTHER E-BIKE THOUGHTS
This isn’t especially related to this bike, but I liked GCN’s 8 Things I Wish I Knew before Getting an E-Cargo Bike.
And some 20in city e-bikes that are on my radar:
The it comes to e-bike and integration, it’s hard to imagine anything more beautiful than the LeMond Prolog and Dutch.
My long-term plan is to convert my Surly Big Fat Dummy into e-assist, though of course Surly does some pretty cool e-bikes too now, like the Big Easy and the Skidloader.
The Swytch looks like a cool conversation kit too, especially for commuting on city bikes or vintage mtbs.
Incidentally, Jones made a couple of prototype ti LWBs with torque-activated Bosch motors, which looked really cool too. I can’t track down a link right now but I’d love to try one!
Some final thoughts on e-bikes in general
Every time I ride an e-bike, especially with cargo, the same excited thought pops into my head…
What if even half the people who’d normally drive in the city rode an e-bike instead? Think of all the space it would create. And how much more enjoyable city mobility would become!
As for bike touring, I’ve enjoyed two great e-bike trips with my mum, one of which you can read about here, as well as a local overnighter on this very bike to Hierve El Agua, a 65km ride away.
Speaking personally, I’m becoming increasingly frustrated with city traffic and localised pollution. Daily, I can’t help but imagine how much roomier and more relaxing Oaxaca would feel without the footprint of so many cars, SUVs, and trucks on its streets, both in use and when parked up. Not only that, but these many of these vehicles appear to be getting bigger and bigger with each year. This video from Not Just Bikes is especially sobering.
I’m convinced e-bikes can be transformative for many city dwellers, and ultimately they can play an important role in reclaiming our towns back from cars and trucks, making them more liveable, relaxing, and cleaner again.
If you have any feedback to offer, especially on the Bafang and its serviceability over a number of years, I’d love to hear from you.
Joe
10 June 2023 at 10:59 pm
Great write-up Cass! When is that Bikepacking.com review of the non-assisted LWB HD/e going to come out?
I’m interested in that frameset in non-assisted mode as a dirt-touring bike. But I would occasionally ride trails with it, so I’m excited to hear thoughts on how it performs in that manner. I’d also be interested in getting just the HD/e frame, primarily for the long chainstays and all the perks of that, but then adding lighter 32h wheels and the lighter, regular LWB truss fork. I wonder how all that would mesh together.
Speaking of long-chainstays, you really ought to get your hands on a Rivendell Gus Boots Wilson and give us a report (560mm chainstay and 1315mm wheelbase! In size large, but I’ve heard it’s terrific on trails and doubletrack)
Cass
13 June 2023 at 3:41 pm
Hi Joe!
Is there a reason you prefer the idea of the LWB HD/e over the standard LWB? E-assist aside, the former is best suited for heavy loads – it tracks really well when fully laden – whilst the latter is more suited to trails, and comes in a bit lighter too. However, there’s a certain amount of overlap, and I think an HD/e with a lightweight wheelset is also fun on trails, albeit slightly milder ones. The extra-long wheelbase is super stable, yet it has the same front-end numbers which translates into similarly playful steering, which is one reason I like Jones LWB geometry so much. This said, the standard LWB also has a really stable ride compared to many other bikes, and I think it climbs techy terrain better – the rear wheel of the LWB HD/e is more likely to slip out, in my experience. Worth noting is that the LWB HD/e is a little harder to box for travel, just because it’s that much longer. But as a heavy-duty, super robust tourer, it’s awesome. It sounds like you are a fan of long wheel base bikes in general, and it’s certainly that!
I do hope/plan to get that write up of the non-assisted HD/e up on the site soon. I just need to grab some last photos, which I’ve done now.
I almost got my hands on a loaner Gus and I was really excited to try it, as I think it would be right up my street and a great bike to have on the site. But I think Riv were worried I’d compare it with a Jones (personally, I think it would be a fascinating comparison!), so had a change of heart. And, there was also some uncertainty over its future. Shame, as it looks like a cool bike!
Joe
20 June 2023 at 3:42 pm
Thanks for the reply Cass. Regarding a preference for the HD/e over the regular LWB… I don’t know, just typical American (and especially Montana, where I’m at) thinking! Long chainstays are good, so even longer must be better, right!?!
I’ve been admiring Rivendell for years, and their bikes just keep getting longer in the rear end. But personally I have a Yuba Mundo cargo bike (unassisted) with real swept back bars that put me upright. The comfort is unlike anything else I’ve ever ridden. So it just has me wondering how far you can take the long rear end to aid in comfort and stability, while still enjoying the ride on singletrack (and finding it capable there). It sounds like you did in fact notice a difference in trail-capabilities once the bike sized up to the HD/e. And Jeff Jones clearly did a lot of testing and landed on the regular LWB size to perform standard trail duties while still being stable in a loaded dirt-touring situation.
That is a shame you didn’t get to test Riv’s Gus Boots Wilson. Apparently they have a new trail-ish bike coming out in the Fall.
Take care!
Fernando
21 June 2023 at 4:52 am
Cass,
Nice article. I find it amusing to see someone driving a two ton pickup, bike hanging off the tailgate, ranting about e-bikes. Of course they have the ability to do more trail damage than non-motorized bikes, so the use should be limited in some areas.
I converted my wife’s old SurlyTroll to an e-bike with a Bafang BBS02 kit and Panasonic batteries. The motor is very reliable and the batteries are holding charge well. I feel it’s worth paying the premium for Panasonic, LG or Samsung cells. The Surly handles the full 750W- 1 horsepower motor well. In general Surly frames are pretty hefty.
The SRAM 12 speed LX drive train was completely not necessary and wore quickly. I switched to a Shimano 8 Alfine IG. The latest 5 and 8 speed hubs are e-bike rated and work really well with the mid drive. I think an eight speed derailleur or IG is all that’s needed considering the huge amount of torque theses motors produce. An old set of Ortlieb front and rear panniers are a semipermanent feature of the bike and it works great for hauling 50lbs of groceries! The car seldom gets used in Albuquerque. The energy consumption is about 25 W-hr/mile, 1 tenth that of a Tesla!
Cass
13 July 2023 at 11:23 pm
Hi Fernando,
The Troll seems like a perfect candidate for e-conversion. I’ve watched some of Jeff Jones’ experimental videos, where he’s run crazy amounts of power through his frames to see what they’re capable of. I’d love to e-convert my old Pugsley one day!
I also leave bags/locks/mudguards/paraphernalia on the bike so it’s all ready at a moment’s notice. Why not, after all, the motor is doing much of the heavy lifting!
A hub drivetrain would be great. I would personally prefer a torque-activate motor too – the CYC Photon is really interesting to me. But for now, the Bafang is doing a good job and the bike gets used daily, in some form or other, in all kinds of weather (including NM-style downpours). As we don’t own a car, it really helps to get stuff done, especially if I’ve already been on an acoustic ride that day.
I’m actually surprised, though, that a 750W BBS02 uses a tenth of the energy of a Tesla. Given the weight of a bike and the size of its battery, I would have thought it would have been much lower!
Thanks for your comment!
Evan
17 December 2023 at 1:28 am
Would love to read your write up on the HD/e as a pedal bike. Like Joe posted about above, I’m intrigued by the HD/e for a pedal bike. I’m about to purchase my first Jones in a frameset and build up a bike, and I’m leaning toward the HD/e just for the longer stays and stiffer frame.
Cass
19 December 2023 at 2:51 pm
I’ve been out of the country for a while, and the bike has been so useful in its e-bike form (for both moving house and because we now live further out of town, up a big hill!) that I’ve delayed pulling the motor off again (-; However, I’ve been promising myself that it’s time to ride it without the Bafang again, so it’s going to happen soon!
Some quick thoughts for now: Overall, I think the LWB HD/e been fantastic in its acoustic form, and I really enjoy riding it. As someone who likes bikes with long chainstays anyway, I like the way the extended wheel base feels, and I find the beefed-up frame handles heavy rear panniers better than the LWB, which can develop more of a steering wobble when it’s rear weight biased. I’ve only run the HD/e with 29 x 3.25s, and I find I can get all the comfort I need from adjusting tyre pressure.
All this said, I do think the standard LWB is a better trail bike. Although they share a similar front-end feel, the standard LWB feels more balanced on loose, rocky climbs, more poised on steep descents, and nimbler generally. Certainly, I much prefer it on techy singletrack and if you want a bike that doubles up as an extremely capable mtb, I think the LWB is definitely the way to go. However, if you plan to really load your bike up, and you mostly ride rough dirt roads rather than trails, I think the HD/e excels.
The extra frame weight (is it 300g?) isn’t significant enough to be a deciding factor for me, though it’s worth noting that this isn’t a light bike. Combined with alloy rims, big tyres, and a fairly basic build kit, it’s a beast to haul up stairs! It’s probably going to be overkill for a lot of people, especially smaller riders.
If there’s anything specific that’s on your mind, let me know!
Michael
26 March 2024 at 2:58 am
So nice to read a thoughtful and open-minded post from a legit “acoustic” cyclist. I have a bbshd equipped bicycle, and that throttle has gotten me out of a couple of potential collisions with cars, one of which would have probably done for me.
I agree with the take about the speed differential between cycles and cars, it can’t be understated. Motors make bicycles safer when there is minimal bike infrastructure/proximity to cars (ie most of America). Yeah I wouldn’t ride my bbshd on a crowded Dutch bikeway, for example, it’s not the appropriate machine.
You’re supposed to get 1000 cycles out of an ebikes battery before voltage drops, there are a few chargers with trickle/partial charge capabilities, but expensive.
The Jones hd/e is exactly what you want, and the v2 build comes with 1×9. I am quite envious of your machine, it’s a great bike.
Cheers and thank you,
Michael
Cass
28 April 2024 at 8:30 pm
Thanks, Michael!
1000 cycles before a voltage drop seems very reasonable.
A 1×9 drivetrain is certainly a welcome change. Perhaps this would help in balancing gear changes with power output changes from the motor. Having recently spent some time recently on an Xtracycle RFA (Bosch), I do find that torque-activated systems much easier to manage overall. I often find myself ghost-pedalling with the Bafang, as I try and strike a balance between Level 2 and 3. On the RFA, I’m more likely to leave it in Eco mode for most of the ride, hopping up to Sport or Turbo if needed.
Still, a year on, and the BBSHD certainly can’t be faulted for reliability. In all the time I’ve been using it, we’ve had one short power glitch after heavy monsoon rain, when the electronics took some time to dry out and return to life. Since then we’ve fitted mudguards, which I’m sure has helped. All things considered, the Bafang gets a tough life here. If it’s not rain, then it’s dirt, dust and vibrations! I use the throttle regularly to get going, or for a quick turn of speed to avoid a vehicle. Other than that, it’s pedal assist.
As you say, it feels like the right tool for the job for my uses here. The inclines are very steep, bicycle infrastructure is poor, and vehicles drive fast! In contrast, the Class 1 RFA felt great gliding along bike paths in Santa Fe, with my son on the back!